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Inspiration

How Thought Creates SufferingAbout Meat Industry Violence

Byron Katie
Byron Katie
Sep 19, 2017
9 min de lecture
À regarder · 7
In a 2017 retreat session, Byron Katie works with a Dutch woman who believes "the meat industry is the largest, most accepted form of violence in the world today." Through The Work—Katie's four-question inquiry method—the woman discovers that her fury and suffering arise not from the meat industry itself but from past/future mental images she creates while believing the thought. Katie distinguishes between imagination and present-moment reality, argues that anger and fear are ineffective motivators for social change, and teaches that clarity about the true source of suffering (one's own thinking) is the prerequisite for both personal peace and effective action in the world.

Lecture · 8 sections

What Triggered the Belief About Meat Industry Violence?

The woman's crisis began with exposure to undercover footage from a Belgian slaughterhouse. After watching the video, she wrote in her worksheet: "I am horrified with the meat industry because it is the largest, most accepted form of violence on Earth today." She brings concrete data to support this conviction: her small country of Holland kills 1.7 million animals per day. The horror of the images and the scale of the numbers fuse into a felt certainty that the meat industry represents global violence on an unprecedented scale.

Katie's opening question is direct: "Is it true?" The woman initially answers yes, pointing to the video evidence and statistics as proof. But Katie presses into the second question of The Work: "Can you absolutely know that it's true?" This shifts the ground. The woman pauses and admits: "No. I really don't know." This small crack in certainty is where the inquiry can begin.

How Does the Mind Generate Suffering Through Imagination?

Katie asks the woman to describe what happens when she believes the thought. The woman reports: "I see all the animals—and it was a horrible video—I see all the animals that I don't see." This is the crucial move: the woman is not just reacting to what she saw on screen. She is creating an infinite mental image of slaughter—"zillions of them"—extending backward into the past (the animals before they were visible in the factory) and forward into the future (what is still happening in slaughterhouses globally).

Katie names this specifically: "In your mind's eye, you see them from the past, alive, and then you see them in the factory. So, you see past/future, past/future, past/future, past/future, animals. And then, as you witness that, you are furious."

The woman confirms the fury. Katie then asks a deceptively simple question: "Who would you be without the thought?" The woman's answer is immediate: "I'd be fine." This reveals the mechanism. With the thought active—generating past/future images—she is furious. Without the thought, the fury does not arise. Therefore, the cause of the fury is not the meat industry itself; it is what she is witnessing in her mind's eye.

When Katie asks directly, "What is the cause of your fury, your anger? The meat industry or what you're witnessing in your mind's eye?" the woman clearly states: "Definitely what I'm witnessing in my mind."

What Is the Difference Between Reality and Imagination?

Katie makes a sharp ontological distinction. The images of cattle in the slaughterhouse that the woman sees are not in the present moment. They are memory and projection. Katie asks: "Do you see the images of cattle in the slaughterhouse? Is that real or is that imagination? You can't have it both ways. Not here, now, reality. This is first-generation reality. And it is perfect."

What Katie means by "first-generation reality" is the actual sensory, present-moment environment—the room they are in, the woman's body, the sounds, the breath. "Everything you need to be happy is right here, now," Katie says, "whether you notice or not." The suffering is not generated by the meat industry itself, which exists in the world, but by the woman's mental reenactment of past violence and imagined future suffering.

This does not deny that slaughterhouses exist or that animals suffer in them. Rather, it clarifies the actual seat of the woman's suffering: her habitual thought process that loops past/future imagery in the present moment. She is, as Katie says, "taking [herself] to slaughter every time [she] gets lost in the dream."

How Do We Turn the Thought Around?

Katie guides the woman through the turnaround, the fourth step of The Work. The original statement was: "The meat industry is the largest, most accepted form of violence in the world today." Katie asks the woman to replace the subject:

"My thinking is the largest, most accepted form of violence in your world today."

Katie clarifies: "Not our world, your world today. And it just wipes people out. It can wipe out your happy life." This is not a claim that collective thinking about the meat industry is society-wide violence. It is specific to the woman's inner world: her own thought-pattern about the meat industry is the largest violence she experiences in her subjective reality, because it colonizes her peace and happiness.

Katie emphasizes that knowing the true cause of suffering—one's own thinking, not external circumstances—is liberating: "At least, you know the cause of your suffering. And you know that they're not causing it." The "they" refers to meat industry workers, corporations, and consumers. This recognition does not make activism irrelevant; rather, it removes the fuel of rage from action.

Why Is Anger Not an Effective Tool for Change?

The woman admits: "I get really violent, basically—I get really, really violent." Katie responds: "Yes. And it's been my experience that that actually is not a productive state of mind to do anything about, you know, the meat industry itself."

Katie introduces a distinction between two modes of action: "There are two ways of changing things. One is out of violence and fear. And the other is just sane." Action driven by anger and fear often reproduces the same emotional toxicity it opposes. The woman is taking herself to slaughter internally every time she indulges the thought and the imagery it generates.

Katie does not argue against veganism or activism. Rather, she argues for clarity as the condition of effective action. "There are more productive things we can do than believing our thoughts. Like, we can do something about it rather than just frighten ourselves once we're awake to what it is."

When action arises from clarity—from knowing that the suffering is in one's own mind, not in circumstances—it can be intelligent, measured, and sustainable. When action arises from rage and the conviction that "they" are causing the problem, it often becomes righteousness disguised as advocacy.

What About the Second Belief: "I Want the Meat Industry to Stop"?

The woman had also written: "I want the meat industry to stop being supported by the millions of people carelessly buying bodies of beings that led miserable lives." Katie works through this statement carefully.

She notes: "The meat industry doesn't have a choice in the matter. We buy it or we don't. So, you get what you want." The meat industry has no agency in whether people buy its products. The woman's statement blames the industry for something only consumers can control. Katie then turns the statement around: "I want the meat industry to stop being supported by me."

This shifts the locus of power. The woman cannot control millions of people; she can only control her own choices. Katie asks her to give examples: "By stop eating meat. That's one. And I'd say by supporting other industries and supporting alternatives." The woman begins to see that her real power lies in personal choice, not in demanding that others change.

What Is the Role of Clarity in Social Change?

Katie argues that clarity about what is real versus what is dreamed is the foundation of both peace and effective action. "Just know the difference between what's real and what's dreamed. Those are not real cows, and pigs and chickens. That's your factory."

Katie also addresses the woman's deeper conviction: "I want the meat industry to be revealed as an industry as shameful as we now look back at the slave industry." The woman believes this would "help." Katie pushes: "So, it's really not good enough for you." She invites the woman to think through the full picture—the people who work in the industry, the families that depend on it—not to change her conviction, but to educate herself.

Katie's instruction is: "We can't just look at something on a screen and just be miserable. We're more intelligent than that, when we're not living in fear. We're more powerful than you could possibly imagine. You can't imagine your brilliance, you can't, because it's cluttered with fake news. Past/future, past/future, fake news."

Clarity, in Katie's view, is incompatible with the loop of past/future imagery and emotional reactivity. When the mind is clear—resting in the present moment—it has access to intelligence and power. When it is cluttered with past/future mental imagery, it loses that access, and any action taken is likely to be driven by fear or rage rather than wisdom.

Where to Go From Here

If you find yourself caught in similar thought loops—beliefs that certain industries, groups, or systems are sources of absolute evil—The Work offers a method to investigate whether those beliefs are actually true, and more importantly, whether believing them is serving your well-being or your ability to act effectively. The Work's core insight is that suffering is caused not by external reality but by the thoughts we hold about it and the past/future imagery those thoughts generate.

This does not require you to become passive or to ignore injustice. Rather, it invites you to examine whether your current emotional state is genuinely serving your values or whether it is actually undermining your capacity to act from clarity and intelligence. The woman in this session began to see that her fury, while it felt like proof of the meat industry's evil, was actually a sign that her mind was lost in imagination. Recognizing that opens the possibility of action that is neither driven by rage nor compromised by self-deception.

]]>

Transcript

[0:01] OK. So, what did you write?

[0:03] So, I wrote, "I am horrified with the meat industry

[0:07] because it is the largest,

[0:10] most accepted form of violence

[0:14] on Earth today."

[0:17] "It is the largest, most accepted"--

[0:22] -"form of violence"-- -"form of violence"--

[0:25] -"in the world today." -Right.

[0:28] Is that true?

[0:40] It's "Yes" or "No."

[0:44] That's a tough one for the ego.

[0:47] Just "Yes" or "No" for the first two questions.

[0:51] It takes a lot of stillness to--

[0:57] test it.

[1:04] "It is the largest, most accepted form of violence in the world today."

[1:09] Is it true?

[1:11] No.

[1:14] Because I don't know if that's true.

[1:18] So, it's still a "Yes" for you.

[1:27] So, if I would do The Work

[1:30] on my own, at home, I would say "Yes."

[1:33] -Good. -And then I'd have my proof.

[1:37] OK.

[1:38] -So, I'm getting you're still a "Yes." -Right.

[1:41] -OK. -Right.

[1:42] So, now, can you absolutely know that it's true

[1:47] that the meat industry is the most accepted form of violence in the world today,

[1:52] the largest?

[1:54] No.

[1:57] So, that's that place for the open mind.

[2:00] -Right. -After you test it.

[2:04] -Do you want to know the situation I wrote this sheet out of?

[2:09] -Yes. -It was--

[2:12] I got an email that showed a video of undercover footage

[2:20] in a slaughterhouse in Belgium.

[2:27] And, so, I'm sitting behind my computer--

[2:29] And these kind of situations have happened a lot.

[2:36] So, I'm there, and I'm just sort of--

[2:39] Yeah--

[2:42] horrified, and I get really angry.

[2:46] And it feels like proof.

[2:49] Yes, it does because you're seeing images.

[2:53] How do you react, what images of past/future happen

[2:58] -when you believe this thought? -I see--

[3:01] Right.

[3:02] Numbers go through my mind.

[3:05] So, for example, I live in a very small country, Holland.

[3:09] And there was a research that actually showed

[3:14] that in my country alone we kill 1.7 million animals per day.

[3:23] -Wow. -Right.

[3:27] So, what happens when I see that video?

[3:32] Yes, how do you react,

[3:34] what happens when you think the thought,

[3:37] "It's the largest most accepted form of violence in the world today"?

[3:40] I see all the animals --and it was a horrible video--

[3:45] I see--

[3:47] all the animals that I don't see.

[3:51] -Yes. -Right.

[3:53] In your mind's eye, you see them

[3:56] from the past, alive, and then you see them in the factory--

[4:01] Right, zillions of them, yeah.

[4:03] So, you see past/future, past/future past/future, past/future, animals--

[4:10] And then,

[4:12] as you witness that, you are furious.

[4:15] Yes.

[4:18] -Very much. -Now, who would you be--

[4:25] Who would you be, showering that night,

[4:29] or having dinner or whatever-- Who would you be--

[4:33] Find a situation, right here, right now, OK?

[4:36] Right.

[4:37] So, who would you be without the thought,

[4:41] "The meat industry is the largest, most accepted form of violence in the world"?

[4:47] I'd be fine.

[4:48] OK. So, now tell me--

[4:52] With the thought, you see the images

[4:55] past/future/slaughter,

[4:58] and then you feel furious.

[5:02] -Without the thought, you're not furious. -Yes.

[5:06] So, what is the cause of your fury, your anger?

[5:14] The meat industry or--

[5:18] what you're witnessing in your mind's eye?

[5:21] Definitely what I'm witnessing in my mind.

[5:25] So, that's not the meat industry.

[5:28] That is you believing

[5:32] past/future images in the moment.

[5:36] So, you see the images of the--

[5:41] cattle in the slaughterhouse.

[5:44] You see that?

[5:45] Is that real?

[5:48] Or is that imagination?

[5:54] You can't have it both ways, you can't.

[6:00] Not here, now, reality.

[6:05] Reality. This is first-generation reality.

[6:11] And it is perfect. And all your needs are met.

[6:17] Everything you need to be happy is right here, now,

[6:22] and all you have to do is notice.

[6:26] But it's here now, whether you notice or not.

[6:30] Other than what you're thinking and believing,

[6:34] this is a beautiful world.

[6:38] And that never changes, no matter what.

[6:41] It never changes, no matter what, it's a friendly universe.

[6:46] You don't have to like it or believe it. It just waits for you to wake up to it.

[6:54] So, you see the movie

[6:58] and then you feel

[7:02] the feelings.

[7:07] -Yes. -So--

[7:10] "The meat industry is the largest, most accepted form of violence in the world today."

[7:17] How would you turn that around?

[7:30] "Fantasy is"--

[7:35] So, you're suggesting to replace "The meat industry" with "Fantasy"?

[7:40] Yes. Or "My thinking"--

[7:42] Right. Oh, definitely.

[7:44] My thinking is the largest, most accepted form--

[7:48] of violence in your world today. Not our world, your world today.

[7:54] And it just wipes people out.

[7:58] It can wipe out your happy life.

[8:02] That's why there are things in the world you can do little about.

[8:08] And it doesn't stop you from trying to change it.

[8:11] Right.

[8:12] But, at least, you know the cause of your suffering.

[8:14] And you know that they're not causing it.

[8:17] Right.

[8:19] And it's, there are two ways of changing things.

[8:23] One is--

[8:26] out of violence and fear.

[8:29] And the other is just sane.

[8:36] -Yeah, right- -It's just sane.

[8:39] Just don't expect people to hear you.

[8:43] -Or to get it at the level you do. -Right.

[8:46] And it's definitely true that out of that angry--

[8:53] Movie--

[8:54] I mean, I get really, I get really violent, basically--

[8:57] Yes.

[8:58] And it's been my experience that that actually is not a productive

[9:07] state of mind to do anything about, you know,

[9:12] the meat industry itself.

[9:14] It's like, you take you to slaughter every time you get lost in the dream.

[9:20] Right, right.

[9:21] And there are more productive things we can do than believing our thoughts.

[9:28] Like, we can do something about it

[9:33] rather than just--

[9:35] frighten ourselves once we're awake to what it is.

[9:39] And then, this Worksheet, as it's turned around,

[9:43] will show you how to deal with things like this.

[9:47] So, let's look at Statement 2.

[9:51] "I want the meat industry to stop being supported by the millions of people

[9:56] carelessly buying bodies of beings that led miserable lives."

[10:03] So, "I want the meat industry to stop"--

[10:06] "to stop being supported by the millions of people"--

[10:10] So, you want the meat industry to stop being supported

[10:17] by millions of people.

[10:19] Now, the meat industry doesn't have a choice in the matter.

[10:24] We buy it or we don't. So, you get what you want.

[10:27] Right.

[10:31] Did you all follow that one?

[10:34] The meat industry cannot make us buy meat.

[10:37] Right.

[10:39] And what you've written is, "I want the meat industry

[10:41] to stop being supported by millions of people."

[10:43] -They have no control over that. -Mm-hmm

[10:46] It's another thing I love about this Worksheet.

[10:50] We begin to think clearly--

[10:55] about what we want--

[10:58] and what's possible.

[11:02] So, "I want the meat industry to stop being supported

[11:05] by millions of people," turn it around to yourself.

[11:12] "I want the meat industry to stop being supported by"--

[11:17] -Me? -Yeah, you're it. That's it.

[11:22] That's it.

[11:27] Now, give me an example,

[11:30] give me some examples of how you can stop supporting

[11:35] the meat industry.

[11:37] By stop eating meat.

[11:39] That's one.

[11:46] And I'd say by--

[11:49] supporting

[11:51] other industries and--

[11:54] -Good. -You know--

[11:56] supporting alternatives--

[11:59] And continue to think it through. See, this--

[12:05] is the answer--

[12:08] to what you want.

[12:10] But you can't change us.

[12:12] Right.

[12:17] But you can think in areas that--

[12:22] are so available to your open mind, if you're not busy dreaming.

[12:28] And you continue to dream.

[12:30] Just know the difference between what's real and what's dreamed.

[12:36] Those are not real cows,

[12:39] and pigs and chickens.

[12:45] That's your factory.

[12:56] Yeah.

[12:58] What else did you write on Number 2?

[13:05] Let's see. I wrote, "I want the meat industry to be revealed

[13:09] as an industry as shameful as we now look back

[13:13] at the slave industry."

[13:15] OK.

[13:17] So, is that true that you want them to do that?

[13:30] I think it would help, yes.

[13:33] -So, I'm pretty convinced. -So, it's really not good enough for you.

[13:38] "I think it would help, yes."

[13:40] No, not good enough for you.

[13:46] Think of the--

[13:50] people who--

[13:53] You have to think it through, to the people that work there,

[13:57] the people whose families depend on it.

[14:02] the--

[14:06] Consider it all.

[14:11] Not to change your mind, but just to educate yourself.

[14:16] We can't just

[14:18] look at something on a screen and just be miserable.

[14:23] We're more intelligent than that, when we're not living in fear.

[14:30] We're more powerful than--

[14:34] You are more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

[14:36] You can't imagine your brilliance, you can't,

[14:40] because it's cluttered with fake news. Past/future, past/future, fake news.

[14:51] So, "I want"--

[14:53] "the meat industry to be revealed as"--

[14:58] "an industry as shameful as we now look back at the slave industry."

[15:03] Like, this has become such a conviction.

[15:08] Maybe, it's stressful. Probably, it is.

[15:11] I feel that it's just this chapter that we're gonna--

[15:15] be so ashamed about.

[15:17] And I sort of can't wait

[15:20] for that consciousness to--

[15:24] So--

[15:26] -That is where we're at. -Right.

[15:30] So, let's Work with your consciousness

[15:34] because, if you can't do it,

[15:37] how can you expect us to?

[15:39] -And you can't. -That's a good point.

[15:43] So, who would you be,

[15:46] without putting all of that on us and the meat industry,

[15:52] who would you be without this thought?

[15:59] I would be fine.

[16:02] So, now let's turn it around.

[16:05] "I want me"--

[16:09] "I want me to be revealed

[16:10] as an industry as shameful as we now look back at the slave industry."

[16:15] -I can go there. -Yeah.

[16:17] -I can go there. -OK.

[16:18] And you keep producing this stuff and believing it.

[16:22] Now, this stuff in your head, this past/future, it is produced.

[16:26] You don't produce it, it is produced.

[16:31] And you can't stop it.

[16:35] But you can know the difference between what's real and what's not.

[16:39] You can be awake--

[16:41] to the dream, awake to what's real into reality and what is fake.

[16:48] And once you're awake to it, the ego will leave it alone

[16:52] and try another trick.

[16:55] But this is your practice.

[16:57] It all becomes just, "I'm awake to the dream."

[17:05] And, in that, you're fearless and you're clear

[17:08] and nothing can stop you from making change.

[17:12] Because you're in touch with wisdom.

[17:14] Without all this fake news,

[17:16] wisdom.

[17:18] -Yeah, I get it. -And there's no ego in that.

[17:23] I love you get that.

[17:26] So, "I want me--

[17:30] to be revealed

[17:35] as that industry"--

[17:37] -Right. -"In my head"--

[17:46] "as shameful as when I look back at it."

[17:49] I'm a slave to that industry.

[17:54] And that's how you've been, a slave to this.

[17:58] Like, you watched the video once,

[18:01] and then you did this.

[18:04] Now, on the screen, were those real animals

[18:09] -or was that a movie? -It was a movie.

[18:11] So, you've never been to the slaughter-- Have you been to the slaughter?

[18:14] -I haven't. -You've never been.

[18:16] I've never seen an animal killed, I think.

[18:21] So, it's when you get clear, take a trip, see what you're up against.

[18:28] Head on.

[18:30] If you wanna change it.

[18:33] Talk to the people there, do your research.

[18:37] Because you just can't come in with, "This is unfair!"

[18:41] Well, you know--

[18:43] That's really true. And I actually--

[18:46] Because of The Work, I did something similar earlier this year.

[18:53] There is a big, sort of a natural park in Holland,

[18:58] and it is designed for animals to be wild,

[19:02] which is really unusual,

[19:04] because nothing is wild in Holland.

[19:06] So, basically they, yeah--

[19:09] They put a big fence around an area

[19:12] and they've just put in animals,

[19:16] and sort of let them go free and wild

[19:20] and not take care of them.

[19:21] And there was a lot of--

[19:24] First of all, everybody was happy about it

[19:26] and we made a movie about it

[19:27] and we felt proud that we had something wild in Holland,

[19:30] and it was magical.

[19:31] And then, there was this political party,

[19:33] which really gets on my nerves--

[19:39] that decided that

[19:42] we should make it more--

[19:44] that, literally, that animals are there-- that nature is there for people.

[19:49] So, it should be open for people

[19:51] and there should be paths for cycling and walking

[19:54] and, alright, and half of the deer and horses should be shot.

[20:01] And this was on the news,

[20:03] and I got this, you know, the same, like, crazy thing.

[20:07] And, luckily, thanks to you, I, sort of in a--

[20:13] moment of clarity to do a Worksheet on it.

[20:16] And I had all these thoughts about this area,

[20:19] and I'd never been there.

[20:21] And I'd never been.

[20:23] I knew all the answers and, you know, every--

[20:26] And, then, I was like, well, I kind of, "I've never been there."

[20:29] So, I went there.

[20:32] And it was kind of weird.

[20:37] Like, all the animals were starving.

[20:40] And it was kind of weird.

[20:43] But it was so hard for me, Katie, to--

[20:49] sort of open to the idea

[20:51] that this crazy political party might be, like, a little bit right.

[20:56] Or, at least, I wasn't assured anymore.

[21:00] It was really sort of-- It was really a--

[21:04] -It opened your eyes. -It did.

[21:08] So, we rally and we fight and we rally

[21:12] and we don't even know what we're talking about.

[21:16] Right, I know--

[21:17] -And we really believe we do. (-I know.)

[21:23] How are we so sure we know what's true?

[21:31] Past/future, past/future, past/future.

[21:38] So, stabilize it, just like you did there, in reality.

[21:44] OK. So, mmm--

[21:47] So, let's just try this one on, OK?

[21:50] "I don't want the meat industry to"--

[21:55] "be revealed

[21:57] as a shameful industry"--

[22:00] "as we now look back at the slave industry."

[22:05] Or, "I don't want the meat industry to be revealed as an industry as shameful"--

[22:13] That's--

[22:14] Well, I know one.

[22:18] And that is as long-- But that feels really like, uugh--

[22:24] OK. So, look at this.

[22:28] "I want you to wake up to how shameful you are!"

[22:34] Right.

[22:36] "Because that really is the way to wake up!"

[22:40] "Just shame yourselves awake!"

[22:43] "And then take on the the meat industry!"

[22:47] Go shame them

[22:48] and see how far you get. I think it will be fairly equal.

[22:53] So, "I want the meat industry to be revealed as a shameful industry."

[23:02] Is it true? Is that the way?

[23:06] No, that's not the way.

[23:09] And now notice how you've lived your life,

[23:13] believing the thought that--

[23:17] "It's wrong and everybody's wrong."

[23:29] And that's pretty lonely.

[23:36] Right.

[23:37] And then it's really old.

[23:39] And it's hopeless.

[23:41] -It's hopeless. -Right.

[23:43] It leaves you in a terrible,

[23:47] sick world,

[23:54] with no choices--

[23:57] -No way out. -Right.

[24:05] It's just not productive.

[24:07] So, who would you be, right here, right now,

[24:12] without the thought,

[24:14] "I want the meat industry--

[24:20] to be ashamed of themselves"?

[24:27] "Or to be seen as shameful"?

[24:39] My first thought is, "I'd be fine."

[24:42] But there's this very old conditioning,

[24:45] and this goes back to as long as I can remember--

[24:50] And I know this is irrational.

[24:53] But it's like, if I relax, if I relax--

[24:59] then it's OK for--

[25:04] for all of that to happen. Like, if I relax, I don't--

[25:08] I condone.

[25:12] And I know that's--

[25:14] That you're moving into just a low of acceptance--

[25:18] -Right. -And--

[25:20] Loving everybody, "loving what is."

[25:22] And then you'll be like the rest of us.

[25:26] (laughter from the audience)

[25:30] Shameful.

[25:31] (laughter from the audience)

[25:39] I know.

[25:41] So, "I want the meat industry to be revealed

[25:45] as something to be ashamed of"

[25:51] Try "I don't want"--

[25:53] "I don't want the meat industry to be revealed

[25:57] as something we should be ashamed of."

[26:01] OK. Now, why is that wiser?

[26:07] If you're going to make change,

[26:11] if you're really gonna make change, that is, if you really care about this issue--

[26:16] Right.

[26:19] why is this a better strategy to start with?

[26:32] It's like, you don't--

[26:34] You can threaten or anger yourself out of something for a little while,

[26:40] but I feel that, like, real change comes from--

[26:44] -Power. -Right, right.

[26:47] -Clarity is power. -Right.

[26:49] -Wisdom is power. -Right.

[26:59] Also--

[27:03] if you approach them wisely, whether it's editorially or--

[27:12] one-on-one occasions,

[27:15] when you approach them, if there is a hint of shame,

[27:21] if you put a hint of shame on them, you've lost it.

[27:26] Yeah.

[27:27] -I've noticed. -Yeah.

[27:32] Right. And it also doesn't, I mean, it doesn't--

[27:36] It doesn't feel true--

[27:38] -anymore, but it's just a-- -Those thoughts--

[27:43] -It's really a stronghold of my identity. -Yeah.

[27:53] So--

[27:55] I would like that we make a date for tomorrow morning

[27:59] to meet here and continue this.

[28:02] -Is that good with you? -That would be wonderful.

[28:04] -Good. -Thank you.

[28:06] Yeah, I love that dream.

[28:10] -Me too. -Me too. OK. OK.

[28:15] Let's go back to the meat industry.

[28:20] So--

[28:23] To finish off "the wants," there's one more turn around.

[28:27] Try it, "I want,"

[28:29] even though we did it.

[28:31] "I want my thinking to be revealed as an industry"--

[28:39] -It's like, this is your life. -Mmm.

[28:42] "as an industry as shameful as I now look back

[28:48] at the slave

[28:51] that I've been to that,

[28:54] that industry."

[28:57] That's, yeah-- That fits.

[29:02] -Yeah, OK. -That fits.

[29:04] So, let's look at the next one.

[29:10] It's so much fun sitting with you. I love your socks!

[29:13] Thank you.

[29:14] (laughter from the audience)

[29:16] -Me too. -And your hair.

[29:19] I just love your jeans.

[29:27] And your teeth are just brilliant.

[29:31] Huh!

[29:32] How to go on now?

[29:36] Thank you.

[29:42] The--

[29:44] So, this is 3. "The meat industry should--

[29:48] wake up to the fact that animals are sentient, too."

[29:54] "The meat ind"--

[29:55] -"Are sentien--"? -Too.

[29:59] Sentient too.

[30:00] As well, like they're sent--

[30:03] Animals are sentient too, like humans--

[30:08] beings.

[30:09] -Oh, sentient beings. Oh, OK. -Right.

[30:14] So, "Animals are sentient beings."

[30:18] Is it true?

[30:20] What's a sentient being?

[30:23] What is "sentient"?

[30:26] -What is "sentient" to you? -That's capable of--

[30:32] I'd almost say of having an inner world and feelings.

[30:36] Good, good.

[30:37] But I'm not sure if that's what the dictionary would say.

[30:40] Well, let's go with it, because that's what you're holding.

[30:42] Right.

[30:43] What's important is what you're holding.

[30:45] Right.

[30:45] And, also, it's really good to keep a dictionary handy.

[30:50] And you have them on your iPhones.

[30:52] And to test what you're thinking and believing

[30:55] to see if the word is even correct.

[31:00] Mm-hmm--

[31:01] And, sometimes, it won't matter,

[31:03] because you're coming from

[31:06] the meaning you've put on it,

[31:08] which is valuable, which is what we're dealing with.

[31:12] So, to me, it's also about not being machines--

[31:17] -That they're, yes-- -Right?

[31:19] Like, that's also in it for me.

[31:21] -That they have feelings-- -Right.

[31:24] -That they have-- -Social lives.

[31:28] So, mmm--

[31:31] "Animals are sentient beings."

[31:35] Is that true?

[31:39] This is a difficult question for an animal lover,

[31:43] but not for someone that really wants to know the truth,

[31:51] to really consider it.

[31:54] Can you absolutely know that it's true that animals are--?

[31:58] No.

[32:01] What does that feel like?

[32:06] Humbling.

[32:12] Yeah. That, as Leonard Cohen would say, that's, you know, that's "a crack",

[32:20] there's a huge "crack in everything". And he says, "That's how the light gets in."

[32:26] -That's quite a-- -Yes.

[32:28] Quite something to entertain.

[32:33] Yes.

[32:35] So, how do you react when you think the thought,

[32:41] "Animals are sentient beings," and you think of the meat industry,

[32:46] and how they kill animals, how they slaughter.

[32:53] I get--

[32:58] I get very--

[33:01] I'd say violence, violent, anger, angry.

[33:05] And also overcome with this sense of being powerless,

[33:12] being unable to do--

[33:14] Like, the magnitude of it, it's just--

[33:17] But, mostly, anger.

[33:20] -And we give up on the human race. -Right. And I--

[33:25] I mean, it's kind of ridiculous, in a way,

[33:28] but it's true that, for example, now, in summer,

[33:32] when everybody's barbecuing, like I have really a hard time--

[33:40] that has such an image of fun and carefree,

[33:44] and I smell,

[33:47] you know, I smell dead bodies being roasted.

[33:51] Yeah.

[33:53] So, that's not--

[33:55] And it's not just the dead bodies being roasted.

[33:58] It is the slaughter--

[34:00] Right.

[34:01] it's all the hurt.

[34:03] Right.

[34:04] I mean, that's unsustainable.

[34:08] -Yes. -That's kind of crazy in a way.

[34:11] I see that that's crazy, but it's there.

[34:14] It's not so crazy.

[34:15] How many of you experienced this at one time or another?

[34:20] See, that's not crazy.

[34:23] -That's-- -Wow.

[34:25] No one--

[34:28] wants to even think about

[34:31] how horrible that is.

[34:33] No one.

[34:34] There are no lines standing up to take a cruise through the slaughterhouse.

[34:46] We don't want to think about it.

[34:51] And when we're barbecuing, we don't.

[34:55] Right.

[34:57] We can't. We don't.

[35:01] But it really undermines my connection with--

[35:08] I mean, my neighbors, if they're barbecuing.

[35:11] I make them into these, you know, unreal--

[35:14] You make them into less sensitive than you are.

[35:18] Yes.

[35:20] You're up here, they're down there.

[35:22] You are conscious, they're unconscious.

[35:26] Yeah.

[35:27] They're laughing and you're suffering.

[35:29] Yeah.

[35:32] -Closing the windows. -Closing the windows.

[35:37] So, now--

[35:42] Who would you be without the thought, "Animals are sentient beings too"?

[35:48] Now, I'm going to invite you to The Work, the same Work that I did.

[35:53] OK?

[35:54] So, close your eyes.

[35:59] Now, you see the YouTube thing

[36:02] where the animals were being slaughtered that you saw?

[36:06] -You see that? -Mm-hmm.

[36:09] OK. So--

[36:12] Who would you be without the thought, "Animals are sentient beings"?

[36:17] Now, be one of those animals going through slaughter,

[36:24] as you see it,

[36:26] all the way.

[36:31] And I invite you all to meditate into whatever--

[36:38] horror you perceived that to be, as one of those sentient beings.

[36:54] And continue to do it,

[36:57] continue to be there, as that animal, until--

[37:02] you're OK with it.

[37:23] Exactly what you saw

[37:28] as one of those,

[37:31] until not only are you OK with it,

[37:38] you are a sentient being there for others,

[37:48] for the human race.

[37:53] For all that's beautiful.

[38:15] I am OK with it.

[38:18] I'm OK with it, because it feels--

[38:21] like I have this sense this is only happening to me.

[38:25] It's a lot of confusion, and--

[38:32] and not knowing what's happening.

[38:36] But I have no story about, I have no story about it.

[38:42] So, I'm just-- And I can't imagine how that would--

[38:44] I mean, it's hard for me to imagine

[38:46] how that must be, because I'm such a--

[38:50] human.

[38:53] -But if I-- -Or maybe--

[38:57] As a human, you seem to be doing really well

[39:00] with going into that slaughter.

[39:03] And being slaughtered.

[39:07] And it felt like it just contrasts so--

[39:10] it really contrasts with--

[39:13] having, you know, that whole burden of, like,

[39:18] all my fellow pigs,

[39:21] "Why is this happening to us?"

[39:25] But I'm just imagining,

[39:28] I'm just imagining--

[39:30] pigs not having that capability,

[39:33] but I'm actually not sure about that.

[39:36] Just go in with your own consciousness.

[39:45] Well, and also, the experience is so intense

[39:48] that I don't have a lot of time to think about anything.

[39:53] So, it's just--

[39:55] You know, an overwhelming--

[40:01] thing that's happening to me.

[40:03] There is nothing that is not here to serve.

[40:08] So, go back

[40:13] and continue to be that service.

[40:16] Sentient

[40:19] being.

[41:04] I get this sense of--

[41:08] Again, it's just such an overwhelming--

[41:12] experience

[41:17] to be there, that there's just not a lot of room for--

[41:24] anything else.

[41:30] And also there's really no other option,

[41:35] other than to go through it,

[41:42] which is--

[41:59] sort of weirdly reassuring.

[42:29] -You're OK? -I'm OK.

[42:31] Yeah.

[42:33] "The meat industry should wake up to the fact

[42:35] that the animals are sentient beings too."

[42:40] Turned around, "I"--

[42:42] "I should wake up to the fact that human beings are sentient too."

[42:46] "That I am"--

[42:47] -"that I should wake up to the fact that I"-- -"that I am sentient too."

[42:52] "That I, as an animal,

[42:56] am a sentient being too."

[43:05] That's a good one.

[43:07] It's an excellent one.

[43:11] If you wanted to teach the human race the horrors of being asleep,

[43:18] would you be that service?

[43:23] Yes.

[43:36] They're certainly waking you up.

[43:42] And a lot of hands in this room went up.

[43:48] If you knew who and what you really were,

[43:52] if the human race needed to be shown,

[43:58] you wouldn't hesitate to rip off your own arm and give it to them.

[44:03] Sentient being.

[44:23] One is awake, one is asleep.

[44:27] To assume animals are asleep,

[44:31] or to assume anyone in the world is asleep,

[44:34] other than you, is arrogant.

[44:43] When--

[44:45] we look out and judge people,

[44:48] companies, animals, as anything--

[44:52] Until we understand them, we cannot understand ourselves.

[44:56] Sentient beings.

[45:01] And there's no rest until that's realized.

[45:04] Little rest.

[45:06] But the ego never sleeps, you know?

[45:11] OK, precious, let's look at 4.

[45:18] "I need the meat industry to start to listen to scientific research

[45:22] that shows that eating animals is no longer necessary nor moral."

[45:30] I have more, but--

[45:31] "The meat industry should make a shift"--

[45:34] So, let’s wait for (the interpreter)--

[45:38] So, you need--

[45:42] -Read it again, so we’ll get it all down-- -Right.

[45:44] "I need the meat industry to"--

[45:46] "the meat industry to start to listen to scientific research

[45:49] So, let's slow down, "scientific research"--

[45:53] "that shows that eating animals is no longer necessary nor moral--

[46:06] because there are so many other sources of protein."

[46:13] And also, in the scientific research, there's all this stuff about animals

[46:21] being

[46:23] mmm--

[46:25] a lot like us, actually,

[46:27] in their behavior and in their emotional lives and--

[46:30] -Yes. -That kind of stuff.

[46:32] But we're assuming they're unenlightened.

[46:35] -I'm sorry, what's that? -I'm assuming they're unenlightened.

[46:37] Right.

[46:38] So, it's putting your own identity onto sentient beings.

[46:44] Mmm--

[46:48] You're at war with sentient beings.

[46:55] Sentient beings, for all you know.

[46:57] But the only way I know to understand is to be the slaughtered.

[47:06] Or to meditate on that moment in time of the slaughter,

[47:12] until I understand.

[47:19] I was in a public discussion, recently, with hunters,

[47:25] a roomful of hunters.

[47:26] And they were all very nice people, which was really confusing.

[47:31] (laughter from the audience)

[47:34] And one of them actually invited me to go hunting with him.

[47:40] And I told him that, I mean--

[47:43] that "That doesn't seem like a fun day out to me at all."

[47:49] And I told him that if there wasn't any bigger purpose,

[47:54] other than, you know, like making a documentary out of it,

[47:57] or some kind of way we could broadcast that situation,

[48:01] I wouldn't do it, because I didn't see any reason

[48:07] for that.

[48:10] And that makes me--

[48:13] What you just said makes me think of that.

[48:16] And also--

[48:18] what you said yesterday, about actually--

[48:22] going to the slaughterhouse.

[48:34] And, even though, you know, that's sort of--

[48:39] the last thing I wanna do--

[48:43] I do see how that would be--

[48:48] you know, sensible and fair

[48:57] At worst, it would give you another Worksheet.

[49:00] At best, it would give you another Worksheet.

[49:11] "You need to be happy,

[49:13] you need the meat industry to start to listen to scientific research

[49:20] that shows that eating animals is no longer necessary nor moral."

[49:28] So, for that reason,

[49:31] "You need the meat industry to listen to scientific research"--

[49:37] -For me to be happy? -For you to be happy.

[49:40] No.

[49:50] -That's a--

[49:51] -It's easier. -"No" is a big answer.

[49:59] So, "You need the meat industry

[50:02] to listen to scientific research."

[50:06] That specific research.

[50:09] How do you react, what happens, when you believe the thought?

[50:13] I feel, I feel--

[50:16] Before you can feel, you have to see images of past/future.

[50:20] So, notice how the mind reacts when you think the thought,

[50:26] "The meat industry needs to listen to scientific research."

[50:29] It's like, I wanna slap, you know? I wanna--

[50:35] I wanna slap all the meat industry.

[50:38] And, to me, consumers are part of that.

[50:41] I would just wanna slap them in the face with all these--

[50:45] So, you see an image of them in your head,

[50:50] of the future.

[50:52] And you see you just slapping them, convincing them.

[50:56] -Right. -OK?

[50:58] Yes, the sense of, like--

[51:01] Right--

[51:03] That righteous, "I-know" mind to these very dense people.

[51:12] And then, you see images of a past of all those animals being slaughtered.

[51:19] So, you have that and then you have this and you're justified over here--

[51:25] Yes, very much.

[51:27] Looking down on them,

[51:30] in a shaming kind of way.

[51:35] OK?

[51:37] So, you see those images and then you feel.

[51:41] You understand?

[51:43] That past/future is always going. You can't believe what you think, otherwise.

[51:49] You see images, past/future,

[51:52] you believe your thoughts on to them,

[51:58] the words on to them,

[52:01] and you see that in your mind's eye

[52:04] and, then, while you're entertaining that movie,

[52:09] that is the cause of your emotions.

[52:14] So, then you feel.

[52:20] I mean, just aggression.

[52:23] Yeah, you become aggressive.

[52:26] Yes.

[52:28] And it's this aggression that--

[52:33] I feel--

[52:35] it's not only in this area but--

[52:39] like this aggression, this aggressiveness I get

[52:42] when I feel that people are ignoring facts.

[52:46] Like, that is just sort of this whole pedestal of righteousness.

[52:51] Like, it's not just that I feel that way, but it's like,

[52:57] tchh-tchh, you know?

[53:00] So, that really emblazes this--

[53:04] So, you become a radical.

[53:10] I feel radically right.

[53:13] Yes.

[53:14] -A radical. -Right.

[53:20] All radicals feel right.

[53:21] (laughs from the audience)

[53:24] -Good point. -Yeah.

[53:26] You can be right and wise, or right and radical.

[53:34] One, we can hear

[53:37] and learn from.

[53:39] The other we shut down,

[53:42] we lock up.

[53:48] And that's perfect.

[53:51] Those of us that are radical like that,

[53:57] when they lock us up it gives us time to consider.

[54:02] Or we become more radical and more bitter.

[54:06] So, I love that we can do this from here.

[54:11] The life of a radical--

[54:13] is--

[54:16] it's painful,

[54:18] it's lonely--

[54:20] Right.

[54:23] It's so hurtful

[54:26] to your life--

[54:28] and welfare.

[54:30] Mm-hmm, definitely.

[54:31] -You're in a slaughterhouse. -Right.

[54:33] And, also, I honestly don't like that part of me.

[54:39] -I mean it's not-- -You're lost.

[54:41] You don't know what else to do.

[54:46] Anything less than that

[54:48] feels like you're just succumbing, like the rest of them,

[54:57] which is something, maybe, you've sworn you would never let happen to you.

[55:08] "I need the meat industry to start to listen to scientific research

[55:14] that shows that eating animals is no longer necessary nor moral."

[55:20] Turn around.

[55:23] "I need me"--

[55:24] "I need me to start to listen to"--

[55:26] "scientific research"--

[55:29] "that shows that"--

[55:31] -"eating animals"-- -"animals is necessary and moral."

[55:40] To some of us.

[55:45] -Yeah. -To some of us.

[55:46] I know them.

[55:48] -I have-- -But if you're asleep,

[55:52] you can under--

[55:53] in some areas, you can understand why we're asleep in some areas.

[56:01] But I also know people who, like me,

[56:05] really hold that as a real part of their belief system.

[56:16] I can kind of understand why they--

[56:20] -Eat meat. -I don't agree with it, but--

[56:25] I understand, I mean, it's a conscious thing for them--

[56:29] -To eat meat. -Right, yeah.

[56:37] I'm not sure if there's a lot of scientific research that would back it up but--

[56:40] Oh, go to the Internet.

[56:44] Just search--

[56:52] --what's the word?-- "advantages" of eating meat.

[56:57] Great.

[56:58] And then look at all the scientific studies.

[57:02] It's all there.

[57:06] It's nothing that, maybe, you would believe,

[57:09] and a lot to contemplate,

[57:12] but--

[57:14] Right.

[57:20] -So, "I need me"-- -Right.

[57:22] "to start to listen to scientific research on the internet

[57:28] that shows that eating animals

[57:31] is necessary"--

[57:33] -and moral. -"and moral."

[57:35] -So, start doing your research. -Mm-hmm.

[57:39] Because if you visit a slaughterhouse,

[57:44] they're gonna give you all that research,

[57:46] if you're not so radical that you're really listening.

[57:50] And I see you as a good listener.

[57:53] But they're going to want to give you all that research

[57:56] and you're going to be caught up.

[57:59] So, you're gonna be on the same page.

[58:02] You're gonna have an understanding there--

[58:05] that will--

[58:10] You understand?

[58:15] I don't want to be at war with what people say.

[58:19] I want to be awake to what they're thinking and believing and why.

[58:25] Because, in a conversation like that when I'm holding my own values,

[58:31] there's power.

[58:33] It's true.

[58:35] -OK? -Yes.

[58:36] That way,

[58:39] I don't shame myself, I don't shame them,

[58:41] I don't shame animals.

[58:47] Yeah.

[58:48] Research, research, research.

[58:50] In other words, education, education,

[58:52] if you're going to take this on.

[58:55] Be as wise about the advantages of meat as they are.

[58:59] Mm-hmm.

[59:01] Otherwise you're cheating yourself and you're cheating animals.

[59:04] -Yeah. -If this is your cause.

[59:19] So, I have one. Would you like to hear it?

[59:21] Very much.

[59:29] "I don't need the meat industry

[59:32] to start listening

[59:35] to scientific research

[59:39] that shows that not eating animals--

[59:49] that eating animals is no longer necessary or moral,"

[59:54] because they're going to have you,

[59:57] educated you.

[1:00:01] And that doesn't mean they're gonna stop.

[1:00:06] But that's our best.

[1:00:11] And when we are at our best,

[1:00:15] there's satisfaction because we know--

[1:00:18] That's it. But it doesn't stop us.

[1:00:22] We continue to get still

[1:00:26] and to tap into that wisdom that goes beyond anger

[1:00:31] and righteous justification.

[1:00:38] "You need them to make a shift."

[1:00:41] Turn it around.

[1:00:43] "I need to make a shift."

[1:00:48] -Yeah. -Yes.

[1:00:49] From seeing them not as an enemy,

[1:00:53] but as someone

[1:01:00] worthy of--

[1:01:05] someone--

[1:01:08] -Right. As someone-- -that doesn't need to make a shift.

[1:01:19] Yeah.

[1:01:20] Mm-hmm, yeah--

[1:01:21] There's nothing more powerful than wisdom.

[1:01:24] Let's look at the next one.

[1:01:28] "The meat industry is cruel, unethical,

[1:01:32] unrealistic,

[1:01:35] unsustainable,

[1:01:37] a waking nightmare,

[1:01:40] a collective cultural shadow."

[1:01:50] So, would you read it again? "The meat industry is cruel,

[1:01:54] unethical,

[1:01:57] unrealistic,

[1:01:59] unsustainable"--

[1:02:01] So, you have your answer and unsustainable.

[1:02:06] It will come to an end.

[1:02:11] Done.

[1:02:23] I'm just imagining the state of the world when that happens, but--

[1:02:28] Well, you want it stopped.

[1:02:31] Right, yeah.

[1:02:33] -It's unsustainable. -Yeah.

[1:02:38] And I do--

[1:02:42] not only believe, but, also,

[1:02:45] when I look back historically to things, I do feel confident that it's--

[1:02:54] moving in the right direction, meaning, my direction, in this case,

[1:02:59] which is always the right direction, obviously, but--

[1:03:05] but I--

[1:03:08] So, "When it comes to the meat industry, my thoughts about the meat industry are"--

[1:03:15] "my thoughts about the meat industry are cruel, unethical,

[1:03:19] unrealistic, unsustainable,

[1:03:23] a waking nightmare

[1:03:27] and a collective cultural shadow."

[1:03:36] Definitely.

[1:03:41] So it's as though you're one of those--

[1:03:45] one of those animals on the conveyor belt, just--

[1:03:58] Let's look at the next one.

[1:04:00] So, my--

[1:04:02] Did-- Yeah, let's look at the next one.

[1:04:05] "I don't ever want to see animals being tortured, separated,

[1:04:12] transported in unacceptable ways,

[1:04:15] murdered for our ignorant few moments of sensatory pleasure."

[1:04:23] OK. So--

[1:04:25] "I don't ever want to see animals separated."

[1:04:28] Mm-hmm.

[1:04:29] What does that have to do with--

[1:04:35] that part of your mind?

[1:04:37] What do you think, what do you see in your mind's eye,

[1:04:40] when you think, "I don't want animals to be separated"?

[1:04:43] So, I see, for example,

[1:04:47] baby calves,

[1:04:50] baby cows being immediately separated from their mothers,

[1:04:55] you know, for the milk and all the kind of stuff,

[1:04:58] and all these ways that their social structures are being ignored and broken.

[1:05:05] Mmm--

[1:05:07] So, that's what I see with "separated."

[1:05:11] That's what I meant.

[1:05:15] And do you feel empathy for the calf?

[1:05:18] Is that any part of it?

[1:05:21] Yeah. It just feels very, again, unethical to me to separate

[1:05:29] a mother from her baby.

[1:05:32] But, beyond ethics, do you feel a kind of grief for the--

[1:05:35] -Yeah. -Good.

[1:05:37] So, again, when you're doing a Worksheet like this, you do--

[1:05:43] the calf.

[1:05:44] The calf.

[1:05:46] You become the calf.

[1:05:48] And you meditate as the calf.

[1:05:52] Watching the mother, being separated.

[1:05:57] And, then, what you're thinking and believing

[1:05:59] about how you need your mother,

[1:06:03] that's a Worksheet.

[1:06:07] And it's not done until you're comfortable in that,

[1:06:11] in being separated.

[1:06:14] And then, you may better understand the mind of an enlightened animal.

[1:06:22] Because you become one.

[1:06:29] So, "I'm willing to"--

[1:06:33] "I'm willing to see animals being tortured, separated,

[1:06:39] transported in unacceptable ways,

[1:06:42] and murdered for our ignorant few moments of sensatory pleasure."

[1:06:48] "I look forward to"--

[1:06:53] "I look forward to animals being tortured,

[1:06:56] separated, transported in unacceptable ways

[1:07:01] and murdered for our ignorant few moments of sensory pleasure."

[1:07:11] If you--

[1:07:14] If you really sit in this Work, and you go to a slaughterhouse,

[1:07:18] and you're educated,

[1:07:20] and as up-to-date as you can possibly be

[1:07:24] with how they see it and how they condone it,

[1:07:30] it can be one powerful little--

[1:07:36] You are what we've got.

[1:07:40] You are what we've got.

[1:07:41] And thank you for your passion and your enlightenment.

[1:07:47] Thank you.

[1:07:49] So, let's get some feedback.

[1:08:06] I felt everything the same,

[1:08:08] and it could as well have been my Worksheet.

[1:08:11] And I've done The Work on it many, many times.

[1:08:15] But it doesn't stick,

[1:08:17] because I'm so afraid that if I really see it as the illusion,

[1:08:22] that I'm abandoning the animals,

[1:08:26] that I'm just as guilty.

[1:08:27] Do you see her abandoning the cause?

[1:08:31] -No. -I don't either.

[1:08:33] And when you said,

[1:08:35] like the meditation, "become the animal,"

[1:08:38] I became or I envisioned being an animal being skinned alive,

[1:08:43] as I've seen in videos.

[1:08:45] And it took a while,

[1:08:48] but then, I could feel

[1:08:51] the inside of the animal.

[1:08:53] It was so peaceful,

[1:08:55] and such a big love.

[1:08:57] And, first, I felt such a contrast

[1:08:59] to the horrible person I've been for the past 20 years,

[1:09:03] because I feel like I have to shame people, I have to judge them.

[1:09:06] Otherwise, I'd be abandoning them.

[1:09:08] So, that felt like such a contrast.

[1:09:12] -And when I let that love sink in-- -So, let's slow down for the interpreters.

[1:09:15] Sorry, yes.

[1:09:18] And as I felt like, being that animal,

[1:09:22] as I let that love sink in,

[1:09:26] it was as if it was saying to me, "It's OK to let it go."

[1:09:34] Like, as if I was granted permission

[1:09:37] to let go of this burden

[1:09:40] that I have to make people more aware,

[1:09:43] that I have to judge them.

[1:09:45] That's like, that I have to do that.

[1:09:47] It felt like I was being given the permission.

[1:09:51] And the reassurance that it was OK.

[1:09:57] And I can still feel that those underlying beliefs, like--

[1:10:03] "If I accept this, then I'm doing the same,"

[1:10:07] I feel they're still present,

[1:10:09] but I now have this exercise to go back to.

[1:10:12] Katie: Yes, you do.

[1:10:13] And I'm also from Holland,

[1:10:16] and maybe we can go together to the slaughterhouse.

[1:10:19] Yeeeh--

[1:10:21] I would never thought I would have said that.

[1:10:25] -So, thank you so much. -Thank you.

[1:10:28] You know, self-realization, in my experience,

[1:10:33] has no value until it's lived.

[1:10:39] And so, it's a privilege to witness both of you.

[1:10:46] Thank you.

[1:10:48] Because we wake up--

[1:11:00] enlightenment--

[1:11:07] is completely user-friendly.

[1:11:11] We don't become complacent in it, as you speak so clearly to.

[1:11:21] The freer we get-- It's like, our values don't shift.

[1:11:29] Our values don't shift.

[1:11:33] It's just that we're no longer at war

[1:11:37] with anyone or anything, because we understand.

[1:11:43] And we understand, because we were radical

[1:11:48] for all we know, and hateful and shaming than they are.

[1:11:56] I don't know--

[1:11:58] but that much of it in me is too much.

[1:12:02] Because I have Work to do and that's gonna stop me.

[1:12:07] It's gonna slow me down.

[1:12:11] It's unnecessary to the enlightened mind.

[1:12:20] Yes.

[1:12:26] I have a dog, which I like very much.

[1:12:30] And she's very old and the veterinarian doctor said

[1:12:35] she should get meat from the slaughterhouse.

[1:12:40] And the slaughterhouse in my city, for me,

[1:12:44] is like an area of concentration camp.

[1:12:49] And I went there by car, singing mantras, crying.

[1:12:56] And in the radio there was also polka music.

[1:13:03] And I came there and they prepared it for dogs and other animals,

[1:13:08] the rest of the bones and these little pieces,

[1:13:12] and you can get them very cheap.

[1:13:16] And I went inside,

[1:13:20] and there are lots of refugees, like Africans,

[1:13:25] people who have not much money.

[1:13:28] And they go to this place to buy meat.

[1:13:32] Every second sentence was from Muslim persons, “No pork? No pork?”.

[1:13:41] The slaughter person at the castle,

[1:13:51] he was very proud.

[1:13:56] For me, it was like,

[1:14:00] they are celebrating Christmas.

[1:14:04] There was a feeling in the air of celebration.

[1:14:09] And I noticed, and it made me humble.

[1:14:15] And I went back in my car with the meat for my dog.

[1:14:24] And I go there more often times now, to get this.

[1:14:29] And, again and again,

[1:14:31] I see their celebration and there's also happiness.

[1:14:39] I don't eat meat, I don't want to eat meat,

[1:14:45] but for the animals who died,

[1:14:51] this party, afterwards, this celebration, this--

[1:14:55] I can't express how proud the people are,

[1:14:59] and how happy they are to get the meat.

[1:15:02] The Africans counting their money,

[1:15:04] "Oh, I get this amount of meat, there."

[1:15:07] They're proud. It's very impressive.

[1:15:16] Education.

[1:15:21] Education.

[1:15:23] Yes.

[1:15:28] German, "Deutsch".

[1:15:34] (in German)

[1:15:39] Many thanks for your Worksheet I think I could have written that, very similarly.

[1:15:46] (in German)

[1:15:51] And maybe I'm even more crazy than you because I do eat meat.

[1:15:56] (in German)

[1:16:04] And, recently, in my work situation,

[1:16:06] I noticed that one of my customers is a hunter.

[1:16:11] (in German)

[1:16:21] And recently I asked him, quite inquiringly,

[1:16:26] what is it like to be a hunter and to go hunting.

[1:16:30] (in German)

[1:16:33] And I just sat and listened.

[1:16:36] (in German)

[1:16:43] I was very impressed by the normality and the "It's-OK" attitude.

[1:16:49] (in German)

[1:16:57] And also by the very, very big respect that he has for the animal.

[1:17:04] (in German)

[1:17:09] And now I think I'm going to call him and go with him on hunt, maybe.

[1:17:15] (in German)

[1:17:16] Many, many thanks.

[1:17:20] Yes.

[1:17:23] (in French)

[1:17:28] I haven't been eating meat for many years and I'm allergic.

[1:17:32] (in French)

[1:17:34] Allergic to anything that may happen in slaughterhouses.

[1:17:39] (in French)

[1:17:43] And for many years I tried to convince people by doing war,

[1:17:48] (in French)

[1:17:50] without knowing that I was at war.

[1:17:52] (in French)

[1:17:58] I tried to make them feel guilty. I was manipulative about it.

[1:18:03] (in French)

[1:18:09] And not so long ago, I was invited by one of my aunts for a meal.

[1:18:14] (in French)

[1:18:20] So, I went to a farm. And in my family, we kill.

[1:18:25] (in French)

[1:18:31] So, she cooked a leg of lamb and I wasn't able to eat any of it.

[1:18:40] (in French)

[1:18:42] She gave me a hard time because I didn't eat any of it--

[1:18:46] (in French)

[1:18:50] and because I didn't want to put gravy on my potatoes.

[1:18:54] (in French)

[1:19:00] So, we had an argument. I went home,

[1:19:04] (in French)

[1:19:06] I wrote a Judge-Your-Neighbor Worksheet.

[1:19:08] (in French)

[1:19:15] I saw that, for many years,

[1:19:17] I was waging the exact, same war, but in the other position.

[1:19:24] (in French)

[1:19:31] I can't go into a slaughterhouse. That, I'm not able to, that's where it stops.

[1:19:37] (in French)

[1:19:44] I often have visitors in my house and now I'm able to cook dishes with love.

[1:19:51] (in French)

[1:20:02] Those dishes are meatless,

[1:20:04] however I don't try to demonstrate or teach anything with them.

[1:20:08] (in French)

[1:20:13] This is how I contribute. I give without putting meat in them.

[1:20:19] (in French)

[1:20:26] And I show my relatives,

[1:20:28] my friends, that it's possible to eat without adding animal protein,

[1:20:35] (in French)

[1:20:43] without putting animal corpses in the food.

[1:20:46] (in French)

[1:20:51] This is how I found peace within me.

[1:20:59] So, I did this Work that--

[1:21:09] that I see is The Work you're doing.

[1:21:14] And, as you were talking,

[1:21:18] it just occurred to me that--

[1:21:23] I don't eat meat.

[1:21:26] And I've never,

[1:21:30] to my mind,

[1:21:33] ever said anything to my children or grandchildren about that.

[1:21:37] I just don't eat meat.

[1:21:41] And as you were talking, it occurred to me that,

[1:21:44] of five grandchildren

[1:21:49] --I think this is correct-- four of them are vegan.

[1:21:56] and--

[1:21:58] two of my children don't eat meat.

[1:22:04] And I've never said-- It just--

[1:22:12] And I'd love to hear their experience of it,

[1:22:16] if I have, in fact, said anything.

[1:22:18] But it's just not like me. It's enough that I'm aware.

[1:22:25] And so, if I were going to do a cause

[1:22:30] and start at home,

[1:22:33] and--

[1:22:35] I've done that, and when I look at you, you've done the same,

[1:22:40] you're living that out,

[1:22:42] you start with-- you don't eat it.

[1:22:46] And then just you have no idea how many lives you've touched.

[1:22:52] Who knows?

[1:22:55] So--

[1:23:00] Yes.

[1:23:07] (in German)

[1:23:11] (in German)

[1:23:14] I eat meat.

[1:23:15] (in German)

[1:23:18] I eat vegetables.

[1:23:22] (in German)

[1:23:35] Interpreter: Could you say that again, please?

[1:23:37] (in German)

[1:23:44] And I feel with people who are being told to hate each other

[1:23:49] and fight against each other.

[1:23:52] (in German)

[1:23:56] I don't know what a cauliflower feels when I eat it.

[1:24:00] (in German)

[1:24:04] And I don't know what a little calf feels when it is being killed.

[1:24:10] (in German)

[1:24:15] What I can see in my experience,

[1:24:18] (in German)

[1:24:28] there's so much love there, as one of the women said,

[1:24:31] as she moved into the animal.

[1:24:34] (in German)

[1:24:44] That, with our complicated thinking we produce a lot of sorrow.

[1:24:50] (in German)

[1:25:00] And that animals and plants have feelings.

[1:25:03] I do know that, and that they more directly experience that and love much better than I do.

[1:25:10] (in German)

[1:25:23] So, should I not eat plants anymore? Should I not eat animals anymore?

[1:25:28] Should I not be with people that I'm at war?

[1:25:34] I don't know.

[1:25:37] Thank you.

[1:25:40] To assume anything or anyone is less wise or aware

[1:25:49] as any other human being is definitely something to look at.

Byron Katie
AuteurByron Katie

American author and teacher of "The Work" — a method of self-inquiry consisting of four questions (Is it true? Can you absolutely know it's true? How do you react when you believe…

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The-workThought-inquiryMeat-industryAnger-sufferingReality-vs-imagination

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Questions fréquemment posées

Katie distinguishes between present-moment reality and mental imagery. The woman's anger arises when she believes the thought and creates past/future images of slaughter in her mind. Without the thought, she feels fine. Therefore, the cause of the anger is not the external meat industry but what the woman is imagining—the thought-generated mental movie.
No. Katie's focus is on the source of the woman's suffering—her own thinking—not on whether animal suffering is real. She distinguishes between effective action born from clarity and reactive anger born from mental loops. She argues that action driven by rage and fear is often less productive than action arising from a clear, present-moment awareness.
First-generation reality refers to the present moment—what is actually happening now in your direct sensory experience. The images of slaughterhouses the woman creates in her mind are not first-generation reality; they are imagination and memory. Katie argues that peace is available in the present moment, which is always here now.
When the woman's belief "the meat industry is violent" is turned around to "my thinking is the largest violence in my world," it shifts responsibility from external systems to internal mental habits. This clarifies that the woman's real power lies in examining her own thoughts and making conscious personal choices, not in demanding that industries or others change.
Yes, but Katie argues the Work changes the emotional ground from which activism arises. Action driven by clarity and presence is more intelligent and sustainable than action driven by rage and past/future loops. The Work doesn't prevent activism; it shifts activism from fear-based to wisdom-based.
She means that every time you get lost in a mental loop of past/future imagery—imagining all the animals that suffered or will suffer—you are putting yourself through suffering, just as if you were in the slaughterhouse. You are doing to yourself what you believe the industry is doing to animals.

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